Comments on: A Jar of Misleading Advices http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/ Giorgio Maone's answers to the Web, the Universe, and Everything Thu, 11 Mar 2010 23:17:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.3 By: Dagorath http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-3331 Dagorath Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:35:12 +0000 http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-3331 Good discussion, pirlouy and Giorgio. You both play on words when you play with metaphors. I like word play, btw :) Giorgio's message = with some effort you can have better protection. It isn't ultimate invulnerability, it's just better, take it or leave it. Pirlouy's message = I am a hopeless addict to all the things on the 'Net, I don't have the strength/courage/ability to be any better than a hopeless addict, I don't have the strength/courage/ability to use the protection Giorgio offers, puh-leeze all you software devs see my plight and fix the damn 'Net so I can continue to do whatever I want, anytime I want, wherever I want yet be completely invulnerable, happy and safe, why can't you make the 'Net the utopia it's supposed to be. Now I must admit that I am no better than pirlouy. I like the idea of being able to surf wherever I want and I throw caution to the wind more often than I should. I also like banking online and sending/receiving money via PayPal. Realizing... 1) legislators are not willing to pass the laws that would seriously reduce hacking/scamming on the 'Net (i.e. death to all hackers, scammers, phishers, not a quick death but rather a slow, painful death ) and the devs cannot do the job without standards legislated into place 2) the biggest scammer asshole, Bill Gates, remains at large rather in a coffin where he should be 3) NoSript is a good thing but some day my human frailty and a well executed temptation from a people-savvy hacker/phisher/asshole will lure me into putting his scam site on NoScript's whitelist thereby revealing my bank account number and PIN or other useful personal info ... I have 2 computers on a wired (no WiFi) LAN with hardware NAT router, KVM switch and 1 monitor, Avast! anti-virus on both machines, as follows: 1) my <b>unsecure</b> machine: my newer, faster machine, used for games (on and offline), surfing porn sites, MSN, torrent, hotmail, i.e. all the dangerous stuff, it does not block Javascript from any site, <b>never</b> used for online banking or any activity that reveals anything about me that a hacker might find useful, <b>all[/b] user info typed on this machine (name, location, birth date, sex, etc.) is bogus, the <b>only</b> truthful info I give on that machine is my timezone and I frequently lie about that too. The strategy is... if there is nothing on this machine but lies and useless personal info then I can surf wherever I want safely and the hackers can have fun trying to use the bogus info they steal from me. 2) my <b>secure</b> machine: my old, slower machine, I run Simply Accounting and other business related software on this machine, use it to access my primary email account (via SMTP and POP3, not HTTP), my online banking and PayPal, <b>absolutely no other sites, no exceptions</b>, it does not share directories with my unsecure machine, no MSN/Yahoo Messenger, no torrents, no games, just Simply Accounting, Avast! anti-virus, a few trusted business softwares, and FireFox with NoScript set to allow Javascript <b>only</b> from my online bank account and PayPal. I suppose a hacker could trick me into downloading and installing software onto my unsecure machine that would defeat whatever security mechanisms are in place to access the disk on my secure machine and steal valuable info but I don't know what else I can do. NoScript is adequate if you know who you can trust but I don't think I can ever know that in every case. Good discussion, pirlouy and Giorgio. You both play on words when you play with metaphors. I like word play, btw :)

Giorgio’s message = with some effort you can have better protection. It isn’t ultimate invulnerability, it’s just better, take it or leave it.

Pirlouy’s message = I am a hopeless addict to all the things on the ‘Net, I don’t have the strength/courage/ability to be any better than a hopeless addict, I don’t have the strength/courage/ability to use the protection Giorgio offers, puh-leeze all you software devs see my plight and fix the damn ‘Net so I can continue to do whatever I want, anytime I want, wherever I want yet be completely invulnerable, happy and safe, why can’t you make the ‘Net the utopia it’s supposed to be.

Now I must admit that I am no better than pirlouy. I like the idea of being able to surf wherever I want and I throw caution to the wind more often than I should. I also like banking online and sending/receiving money via PayPal. Realizing…

1) legislators are not willing to pass the laws that would seriously reduce hacking/scamming on the ‘Net (i.e. death to all hackers, scammers, phishers, not a quick death but rather a slow, painful death ) and the devs cannot do the job without standards legislated into place

2) the biggest scammer asshole, Bill Gates, remains at large rather in a coffin where he should be

3) NoSript is a good thing but some day my human frailty and a well executed temptation from a people-savvy hacker/phisher/asshole will lure me into putting his scam site on NoScript’s whitelist thereby revealing my bank account number and PIN or other useful personal info

… I have 2 computers on a wired (no WiFi) LAN with hardware NAT router, KVM switch and 1 monitor, Avast! anti-virus on both machines, as follows:

1) my unsecure machine: my newer, faster machine, used for games (on and offline), surfing porn sites, MSN, torrent, hotmail, i.e. all the dangerous stuff, it does not block Javascript from any site, never used for online banking or any activity that reveals anything about me that a hacker might find useful, all[/b] user info typed on this machine (name, location, birth date, sex, etc.) is bogus, the only truthful info I give on that machine is my timezone and I frequently lie about that too. The strategy is… if there is nothing on this machine but lies and useless personal info then I can surf wherever I want safely and the hackers can have fun trying to use the bogus info they steal from me.

2) my secure machine: my old, slower machine, I run Simply Accounting and other business related software on this machine, use it to access my primary email account (via SMTP and POP3, not HTTP), my online banking and PayPal, absolutely no other sites, no exceptions, it does not share directories with my unsecure machine, no MSN/Yahoo Messenger, no torrents, no games, just Simply Accounting, Avast! anti-virus, a few trusted business softwares, and FireFox with NoScript set to allow Javascript only from my online bank account and PayPal.

I suppose a hacker could trick me into downloading and installing software onto my unsecure machine that would defeat whatever security mechanisms are in place to access the disk on my secure machine and steal valuable info but I don’t know what else I can do. NoScript is adequate if you know who you can trust but I don’t think I can ever know that in every case.

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By: Richard http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-2848 Richard Tue, 18 Dec 2007 05:51:33 +0000 http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-2848 May the comment concerning the application firewall be one of those content analysing types that will rewrite the HTML for you as it comes down? The kind of thing that Slashdotters tend to call "Evil"? They wouldn't work for SSL, but may mitigate for normal browsing. May the comment concerning the application firewall be one of those content analysing types that will rewrite the HTML for you as it comes down? The kind of thing that Slashdotters tend to call “Evil”?

They wouldn’t work for SSL, but may mitigate for normal browsing.

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By: Giorgio http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-2710 Giorgio Sun, 16 Dec 2007 06:17:24 +0000 http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-2710 @<b>Onyx</b>: <a href="http://hackademix.net/2007/10/02/recaptcha-any-comments/" rel="nofollow">ReCaptcha</a> is one of the most reliable and socially useful captchas around, and it's got its proper fallback when scripts are not allowed. The most likely reason why you couldn't see it is that you either have <i>NoScript Options|Advanced|Untrusted|Hide <NOSCRIPT> elements</i> checked or IFRAMEs blocked and no placeholders. That said, as soon as I've got time I'll implement my own self-hosted captcha. @Onyx:
ReCaptcha is one of the most reliable and socially useful captchas around, and it’s got its proper fallback when scripts are not allowed.
The most likely reason why you couldn’t see it is that you either have NoScript Options|Advanced|Untrusted|Hide <NOSCRIPT> elements checked or IFRAMEs blocked and no placeholders.
That said, as soon as I’ve got time I’ll implement my own self-hosted captcha.

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By: Onyx http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-2685 Onyx Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:19:28 +0000 http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-2685 First of all thank you so much for your script. I have been using ffx since 1.(something) and noscript just shortly after i discovered ffx. I love the plug-in. It has been pretty straight forward from the beginning. I feel bad for pirlouy. I remember almost a decade ago when I started programming in javascript. It was a very fun and powerful language. I think a lot of people miss that. You could do almost anything with javascript before the days of css and dhtml and xss. I miss it too pirlouy but I still block it. Ironicly right under this text box is a grey no script box, lol I wonder what i am missing. I wont find out because I dont trust hackademix that much ;) BTW I notice you also said you dont use a firewall and advise people against them. That is also a very very bad idea. To go back to your car analogy, that is like driving around with no cops, speed limits and road laws. Sure you might make it to get groceries or to work. Hell, you might make it a month with no problems but eventually you will get hit by a drunk driver or a speeder out of control. You can not by default trust everyone to make the same nice decisions. More importantly you cant trust them to be able to foresee every vulnerability in their systems. Think of it as a condom for your browser, allowing ffx to truly browse safer. PS I take it all back... I almost fell off my chair when i discovered i had to allow jscript just to comment to your site buddy... wtf... cant you find a better way? like your own captcha rather than a offsite? this sux First of all thank you so much for your script. I have been using ffx since 1.(something) and noscript just shortly after i discovered ffx. I love the plug-in. It has been pretty straight forward from the beginning. I feel bad for pirlouy. I remember almost a decade ago when I started programming in javascript. It was a very fun and powerful language. I think a lot of people miss that. You could do almost anything with javascript before the days of css and dhtml and xss. I miss it too pirlouy but I still block it. Ironicly right under this text box is a grey no script box, lol I wonder what i am missing. I wont find out because I dont trust hackademix that much ;)

BTW I notice you also said you dont use a firewall and advise people against them. That is also a very very bad idea. To go back to your car analogy, that is like driving around with no cops, speed limits and road laws. Sure you might make it to get groceries or to work. Hell, you might make it a month with no problems but eventually you will get hit by a drunk driver or a speeder out of control. You can not by default trust everyone to make the same nice decisions. More importantly you cant trust them to be able to foresee every vulnerability in their systems.

Think of it as a condom for your browser, allowing ffx to truly browse safer.

PS I take it all back… I almost fell off my chair when i discovered i had to allow jscript just to comment to your site buddy… wtf… cant you find a better way? like your own captcha rather than a offsite? this sux

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By: Ian http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-1920 Ian Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:05:23 +0000 http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-1920 I'm NoScript user anyway, Mozilla Firefox 2.0.10 is out an this .jar URI bug is solved if you look at the changelog :). NoScript isn't a trade off, if you wanna view a site with javascript and all that just click Allow hackademix.net for example, easy as that, or Allow temporarily. And if you're one of the idiots only use Internet for searching some information and using MSN don't use it if you don't want to have more security. Greetings, Ian. I’m NoScript user anyway, Mozilla Firefox 2.0.10 is out an this .jar URI bug is solved if you look at the changelog :).

NoScript isn’t a trade off, if you wanna view a site with javascript and all that just click Allow hackademix.net for example, easy as that, or Allow temporarily. And if you’re one of the idiots only use Internet for searching some information and using MSN don’t use it if you don’t want to have more security.

Greetings, Ian.

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By: receiptbill » Falla "JAR:" per Firefox, XSS per Gmail http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-1878 receiptbill » Falla "JAR:" per Firefox, XSS per Gmail Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:36:07 +0000 http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-1878 [...] da questi e da molti altri simili attacchi utilizzando su Firefox la popolare plug-in NoScript. Come spiegato da Giorgio Maone, autore della potente estensione, NoScript è in grado di impedire alle risorse remote JAR di [...] […] da questi e da molti altri simili attacchi utilizzando su Firefox la popolare plug-in NoScript. Come spiegato da Giorgio Maone, autore della potente estensione, NoScript è in grado di impedire alle risorse remote JAR di […]

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By: Rafa Minuesa http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-1766 Rafa Minuesa Sat, 24 Nov 2007 12:35:53 +0000 http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-1766 Great work Giorgio. We've been using your No-Script Add-on since over a year now and can testify to the amount of dedication you are putting into this project, proved by the constant updates always addressing the latest vulnerabilities. What's really amazing in this case is how NO ONE of them security "experts" could correctly identify the danger it represents, neither provide valid advice on how to protect from it. Great work Giorgio.
We’ve been using your No-Script Add-on since over a year now and can testify to the amount of dedication you are putting into this project, proved by the constant updates always addressing the latest vulnerabilities.
What’s really amazing in this case is how NO ONE of them security “experts” could correctly identify the danger it represents, neither provide valid advice on how to protect from it.

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By: BlogZilla » Falla "JAR:" per Firefox, XSS per Gmail http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-1643 BlogZilla » Falla "JAR:" per Firefox, XSS per Gmail Wed, 21 Nov 2007 06:15:04 +0000 http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-1643 [...] da questi e da molti altri simili attacchi utilizzando su Firefox la popolare plug-in NoScript. Come spiegato da Giorgio Maone, autore della potente estensione, NoScript è in grado di impedire alle risorse remote JAR di [...] […] da questi e da molti altri simili attacchi utilizzando su Firefox la popolare plug-in NoScript. Come spiegato da Giorgio Maone, autore della potente estensione, NoScript è in grado di impedire alle risorse remote JAR di […]

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By: Alan Baxter http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-1555 Alan Baxter Sun, 18 Nov 2007 15:21:55 +0000 http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-1555 <blockquote>Regarding the other questions, I’ve just integrated FAQ 1.5, which was already about the default whitelist, to address your concerns more precisely.</blockquote> Thank you for updating the NoScript docs. I appreciate its thorough documentation.

Regarding the other questions, I’ve just integrated FAQ 1.5, which was already about the default whitelist, to address your concerns more precisely.

Thank you for updating the NoScript docs. I appreciate its thorough documentation.

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By: Giorgio http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-1551 Giorgio Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:20:05 +0000 http://hackademix.net/2007/11/13/a-jar-of-misleading-advices/#comment-1551 @<b>pirlouy</b>: GMail and Google are in the default whitelist, so even if you're a beginner you won't miss anything. Youtube tells you it needs JavaScript in big red letters every time you try to watch a movie, you'll surely notice that. Regarding the other questions, I've just integrated <a href="http://noscript.net/faq#qa1_5" rel="nofollow">FAQ 1.5</a>, which was already about the default whitelist, to address your concerns more precisely. @pirlouy:
GMail and Google are in the default whitelist, so even if you’re a beginner you won’t miss anything.
Youtube tells you it needs JavaScript in big red letters every time you try to watch a movie, you’ll surely notice that.

Regarding the other questions, I’ve just integrated FAQ 1.5, which was already about the default whitelist, to address your concerns more precisely.

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