Comments on: José Saramago (1922-2010)

By: aclericist

aclericist — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 08:13:12 +0000

Oh, ha ha. Very Xtian of you Gym; love your neighbour - - but only if they’re your flavour of patriarchal oppressor.

By: Gym

Gym — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:34:59 +0000

If I thought that the Roman Catholic church represented Christianity, I think I would probably be an atheist too. The RCC is so far removed from what the Bible teaches that one has to wonder how many atheists its anti-Christianity has created.

By: atheist

atheist — Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:46:04 +0000

Portuguese Playboy got their Portuguese tribute to Saramago about right.
http://gawker.com/5581656/jesus-appears-in-portuguese-playboy
But of course the USA hegemon couldn’t be stopped from steamrollering the
Portuguese back into the theist tarmac.
Apparently smut is ok in the USA, but the Nazarene on a stick can’t go near it.
Big ups to Portugal!

By: Tom T.

Tom T. — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 06:53:30 +0000

@ computerfreaker and Giorgio Maone: What’s ironic (almost funny) about that Wiki article is that "reactionary" seems to apply to almost anyone, depending on who’s doing the applying. For example, I oppose the current trend and state of affairs in the US, with Govt. eavesdropping, warrantless wiretapping and searches, no habeas corpus, assumption of non-existent "Executive Privilege" by the POTUS (many POTUS, over the past 100 years), and a return to the principles of the Founding Fathers: The Constitution, Bill of Rights, and a strictly-limited government which is the servant, not the masters, of the people.

So I guess that makes me a "reactionary atheist". Strange, indeed! :-)

By: computerfreaker

computerfreaker — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 19:13:09 +0000

@Mr. Maone: well, that’s embarrassing. I seem to have confused reactionary with revolutionary. Thanks for correcting me.
Sorry for the mix-up, and yes, I am quite reactionary.

computerfreaker

By: Giorgio

Giorgio — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 17:43:39 +0000

@computerfreaker:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactionary

By: computerfreaker

computerfreaker — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 16:42:41 +0000

@VonGüldenstein: Vatican 2 was reactionary. Wanting the *traditional* Latin Mass back isn’t reactionary; if anything, it’s conservative or even ultraconservative. We Traditional Roman Catholics don’t like our Mass changed.

@aclericist: first, I find it necessary to correct several terms you used. The so-called "cracker" is the Sacred Host, also known as the Sacred Eucharist. The "mob" is actually quite peaceful, although we are definitely not happy with the modernists.
The bulk of the Catholic Church *is* modernist. There’s not many Traditional Catholics left, certainly not enough to force Rome’s hand on anything. If they’re bringing back the Latin Mass, it’s because His Holiness is finally taking control back from the modernists. All I can say is, "it’s about time".
No offense to Mr. Saramago, but if it was his "clear voice" that caused Portugal to introduce two major sins (gay marriage and abortion), he’s going to have some serious explaining to do to God.

@Tom T.: Yes, we definitely agree on the proper way to try converting people. :)

By: Tom T.

Tom T. — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 09:29:37 +0000

@ atheist: Your questions were reasonable enough until the last line, which was totally uncalled for — from *any* POV or *anyone’s* POV. computerfreaker and I had each agreed that we respected each other’s rights to their private beliefs, but putting profanity into the discussion is irrelevant, immaterial, disrespectful, and a sign of a limited vocabulary. I complain of persecution of atheists, and you give people reason to persecute them. It *is* possible to disagree politely - please do so. You can tell me to f@ck off, too, but as the old saying goes, "The man who throws the first punch has lost the argument". Same here - the first one to resort to foul language has lost the argument. (You also lose some readers — some parents install parental-control sw, and their children, who might be very high on the tech scale, might find themselves blocked from reading this blog, or wherever you post.)

@ computerfreaker: Although the Catholic Church has some nasty history of persecutions, like the Inquisition that you mentioned, most of the *modern* persecution of atheists in the US has not been from Catholics, but rather, from the extreme fundamentalist (Protestant, I guess) "evangelical Christians". Attempting to persuade is fine; threats and violence are not. I’m sure we agree on that. :)

By: aclericist

aclericist — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 05:56:25 +0000

"if wanting the Latin mass back is not reactionary, what is?"
May I have a go at an answer?
The Vatican Cabinet wanting the mass back in Latin, the cracker back on the tongue, probably sees the way the wind’s blowing against the Roman Church all across the secularised, developed Western countries, and is looking to revive these externals of Roman Church practise in preparation for using the identity politics that minorities need for protecting themselves from assimilation into the dominant polity.
The defence of the Vatican’s obscenity of wealth, and whatever corruption of the work of improving the life of the majority that it is still able to manipulate, will certainly need all the spin that Rapsinger’s mob can summon to argue that they shouldn’t be subject to the basic laws of the land. All churches still get away with some ghastly practises against secular society, but the world is gradually working against them.
Right now it doesn’t look as though Joe’s got the guts or the brains for the work of making his crooked mob look good, so I look forward to the lava flow of human rights improvements rumbling along nice and steady and putting every cleric where they belong: with their crooked mouths shut and doing real work for a living.

Most certainly it was Saramago’s clear voice that helped Portugal to become one of the first to fully recognise that women need to control their own fertility and that gay marriage is no more harmful than any other state ceremony.
Less than a fifth of Portugal goes to church (of any kind) any more.
Contemplate that you cleric lovers :-)
Vale José Saramago.

By: VonGüldenstein

VonGüldenstein — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 20:39:38 +0000

@computerfreaker: LOL, if wanting the Latin mass back is not reactionary, what is?